48% of LDS men would like women to have the priesthood . . .

[UPDATE: So, I've been informed in the comments that this survey only polled 53 Mormons: 27 men and 26 women. If that's the case, I would say that's a low enough sample size that these numbers really don't mean very much. But, feel free to read the original post if you please.]
. . . but only 10% of LDS women say the same. Grant Hardy has a fascinating post on the subject over at Jana Riess’s blog, Flunking Sainthood.
In fact, a majority of the membership for every religious tradition is in favor of female clergyexcept Mormonism. That includes evangelical Christians. From Grant’s post:
Authors Robert Putnam and David Campbell asked a wide variety of Americans their opinion about women leading churches. They report that “by 2006 majorities of every religious tradition except Mormons had come to favor women clergy,” including 93% of both Mainline Protestants and Jews, and 75% percent of “Anglo” Catholics (p. 243). Even 66% of Evangelicals agreed, as compared with 30% of Latter-day Saints. In fact, only 10% of Mormon women favor female clergy in their church, which in an LDS context means giving women the priesthood. As Putnam and Campbell note, “Mormons, and especially Mormon women, appear to be the only holdouts against the growing and substantial consensus across the religious spectrum in favor of women playing a fuller role in church leadership.”
Grant goes on to speculate on the reason for this divide in attitude between LDS men and LDS women. As I and several other people argued in the comments, I actually think that he misses the biggest reason for it: the church’s cultural taboo against seeking priesthood power, which translates into discouraging everyone from wanting higher priesthood offices and discouraging women from wanting the priesthood at all.
As a teenager taking the missionary discussions, the reaction I got when I first brought up the subject of women and the priesthood surprised me. “Well, why do you want the priesthood, Jack?” The question was asked with just the right touch of accusation, which confused me since I hadn’t said anything about wanting the priesthood for myself; I had only said that I disliked that women weren’t ordained to it. The fact that the conversation immediately turned to my alleged lust for power as a sixteen year-old girl was a little disconcerting.
My own opinion is that men are more free to give an affirmative answer to this question because they cannot be the targets of similar ad hominem about lusting for power. In desiring women to have the priesthood, they’re only seeking to empower someone else. The worst they could be charged with is trying to shirk their divinely mandated priesthood duties by sloughing them off on women, but I don’t think this concern is anywhere near as common in Mormon thought as warnings against seeking power.
I think that if we asked Mormon men how many of them would like to become General Authorities someday, you’d probably get similarly low results—but their wives would give more affirmative answers if asked how they would feel about their husbands becoming GAs. What do you think?
In any case, I’m heartened by this news. It means that almost half of the Mormon men I meet may be in favor of giving women the priesthood, and a little more than one out of every four Mormons I meet will say the same. I can live with that.

Comments

48% of LDS men would like women to have the priesthood . . . — 15 Comments

  1. Well spoken. Not having yet read the other reasons given, I have to at least note that I have heard the same accusation almost every time I’ve addressed gender inequality in the church. It’s a tiring old saw.
  2. “I think that if we asked Mormon men how many of them would like to become General Authorities someday, you’d probably get similarly low results—but their wives would give more affirmative answers if asked how they would feel about their husbands becoming GAs. What do you think?”
    Good comparison.
  3. I totally agree with your assessment. The taboo in the church against women wanting power (unless it’s reproductive in nature) is very strong. I’m a little surprised by the 48% of men who would like women to hold the priesthood. In a good way.
    It’s the ultimate double standard that when a boy holds the priesthood it’s all about service and a wonderful gift, but if a girl should want it it’s because she’s power hungry and selfish. Ugh.
  4. Chelsea, the reason why you’re surprised is because that 48% of men is actually 13 men. Statisticians can tell you how educated people are who rely on numbers less than 20.
    Also, the question didn’t ask about priesthood as the LDS understand it. It said “pastoral role”. It was a poorly worded question that doesn’t yield high understanding.
  5. psychochemiker ~ Are you saying that the survey the authors used only polled 27 Mormon men? If so, I would agree that the number polled is too small to tell us anything useful. Where did you get this information from? I haven’t consulted American Grace myself.
    I don’t think the “pastoral role” thing matters as much. One would still have to wonder why LDS men answer so much more affirmatively to seeing women in a “pastoral role” than LDS women do.
  6. Hi Jack,
    Yup. only 27. Um, I got it second hand from BCC (a dirty reading habit I have…Don’t worry, I don’t comment there, I respect myself more than to swim in that cesspool). I think the full poll had 1200, 2% being 53 mormon respondents, and 27 men, and 13 answered yes to that question. The problem was the statisticians didn’t know enough about Mormonism to ask the right questions.
    If someone asks, Mormons thinking in a mindset that RS presidents are pastoral, then it should have been 100%. In order to get the answer you would like to praise/condemn, the question needs to be “Should the LDS church extend active priesthood roles outside of temples to women.” Get me a poll of scientifically random active Mormons, with over 100 men and 100 women that asks that question, then this post title is valid. I just don’t think that’s what was going through these 13 men’s minds…
    BTW, the sum I was requested to add went above 10, thus forcing me to remove my shoe in the provo public library to post this answer…
  7. Jack,
    If psychochemiker is right about the question asked and about the numbers of respondents, then I think he is right on both counts. “Pastoral role” is such a foreign phrase to Mormons that it could have meant just about anything to those answering the question.
  8. psychochemiker ~ Should the LDS church extend active priesthood roles outside of temples to women.
    I’m not even sure if that’s the right question. It isn’t like women are performing baptisms and sealings in temples. “Should full priesthood ordination be extended to women?” would probably be sufficient to cover the “women already have the priesthood” crowd.
    But, I agree that if only 53 Mormons were polled, that really isn’t enough to tell us anything meaningful. I’ve updated the post accordingly.
  9. The sample size is too small to tell us anything meaningful. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if the results were similar using a larger sample size. There’s a low social cost for men saying “yes,” and I suspect that a majority of Mormon men really don’t care one way or the other. It might be a slim majority, with younger men being more likely to say yes. Women of all ages would be just as likely to say no.
    If the “yes” respondents really did misunderstand the question, I wonder why so many women said “no.” Are Mormon women more likely to understand what is meant by “pastoral role” or less likely than men to see their church service as a pastoral role?
  10. Rebecca ~ If the “yes” respondents really did misunderstand the question, I wonder why so many women said “no.” Are Mormon women more likely to understand what is meant by “pastoral role” or less likely than men to see their church service as a pastoral role?
    That’s exactly what I was trying to get at earlier. If the men who are saying “yes” to women in pastoral roles merely think they’re affirming women as Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary Presidents, but wouldn’t want women holding the priesthood, why do so many men see those callings as “pastoral roles” when women don’t?
    Incidentally, if the survey is equating “women in pastoral roles” with “ordination of women,” I have to wonder if it isn’t over-reporting the number of people who favor the ordination of women across the board.
    For example, consider the position statement of this church in Oregon. They allow women deacons and they sometimes refer to ministry leaders who are both men and women as “pastor,” but they restrict the board of elders and head pastor positions from women. As they explain in their position statement, “The gift of pastor (Ephesians 4:11) involves shepherding, but is different from the office of elder/overseer. We use the term ‘pastor’ for some of our leaders, whether men or women, who direct ministries. They shepherd part of the flock under the elders’ authority. Elders are ‘pastors’ (1 Peter 5:1-2), but we distinguish their office by the term ‘elder’ or ‘overseer’ … A woman with the gift of pastor will find many expressions, but the role of elder is limited to men.”
    Presumably the people at this church would affirm that they want to see women in “pastoral roles,” but not agree that they fully support the ordination of women.
  11. Although the sample size of the poll makes the survey unreliable, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’d find men in general as being more comfortable with the concept of women in the priesthood than women are (although I don’t think the percentage difference would be nearly as large as the survey suggests).
    And I don’t think it’s so much for the reason you (Jack) gave as it is the demographics of LDS culture. My guess is that in the Church (in the U.S.) there is a higher percentage of men who work in jobs where women are roughly equals than there are women who work in jobs where they are the equal of men (either because they’re stay-at-home moms or because haven’t developed out-of-home careers to the extent that their husbands have).
    In other words, there may be more men in the church who have experienced women in career-related leadership roles than there are women in the church who have experienced the same. This may influence what they think about women in comparable church roles.
    Of course, I have no data to back any of this up.
  12. I’d say that if a proper poll was done, with the right questions, so that there was no confusion as to what was being asked, most Mormon men and women would be against giving the priesthood to women without a new revelation (given by the church and also received by them from the Spirit.) If it was just a change in policy, without the claim to a new revelation to be canonized or accepted by vote, I’d say the vast majority would oppose giving women the priesthood. But with such a purported revelation presented to the people for a vote, some minds might be open to change (depending upon whether they accepted the new revelation as real or pretended.)
    As I understand the Mormon mindset, all would be for giving women the priesthood if it were the will of the Lord. The problem members would have is determining if it is His will. Most members currently, I’d say, believe that it is the will of the Lord that men only have the priesthood, therefore any change would require a new revelation and not just a policy change. But even with a new revelation, there would be lots who would reject it as false and cry apostacy. I don’t believe that it would be as easy as, say, Official Declaration #2 and stating that blacks can now get the priesthood. Everyone voted in the affirmative on that one without much dissent. But that was a different situation. Many see that prohibition as having been a mistake to begin with, because Joseph Smith had given the priesthood to a black man, setting a historical precedent, which Brigham then shut down.
    Women and the priesthood, though, is different. There does not seem to be any historical precedent, no womanly order of priesthood in any part of the scriptures and the priesthood (the office of a priest) is always spoken of in masculine terms. Only the future reference of a priestess is mentioned in the temple, but this doesn’t indicate that women in mortality are to be ordained to priesthood. Still, the fact that priestess is mentioned leaves open the possibility that at some point in the future the Lord will reveal the orders of the priesthood that pertain to women. So, I’d say that LDS are open to the possibility of new orders being revealed, but to most LDS a simple policy change would probably smack of apostacy and bowing to outside pressure and they’d resist it or leave the church.
    So it would requre a new revelation in which further, new doctrine about the priesthood was revealed and then it would stand a chance at be accepted by the membership.
    If I were wording the question, I’d perhaps ask three questions: “If the LDS church changed church policy to allow full ordination of women to the priesthood and its offices (without publishing a new revelation authorizing the policy change), would you support the new policy?” That question would let you know who was in favor of women getting the priesthood now, without needing more knowledge (a new revelation) from the Lord.
    To find out how many would requires more knowledge from the Lord before accepting it, another question might be: “Would you need to have the LDS church publish a new revelation which allowed for full ordination of women to the priesthood and its offices, in order for you to accept a new church policy of women receiving the priesthood?”
    To learn how many would reject such a change in policy no matter what, the following question might be asked: “Would you reject as false a new revelation published by the LDS church in which it was purported that women could now be fully ordained to the priesthood and its offices?” That would tell you the percentage that perceive such a change as apostacy.
    Even these answers might not get to the truth, though, as many LDS would need to confirm everything with the Spirit (get their own revelation about it) before making a move to accept or reject.
  13. LDS Anarchist ~ I edited your first comment and deleted our request for the edit.
    I was actually thinking of some of the same problems you were, i.e. how to word the question in a way that would bring out the data we’re looking for. It’s tricky because of the mentality that the current system is God’s will and only a revelation can change it.
    Concerning what you said here though:
    There does not seem to be any historical precedent, no womanly order of priesthood in any part of the scriptures and the priesthood (the office of a priest) is always spoken of in masculine terms.
    See Mormon Heretic’s summary of my 2010 Sunstone presentation, here. If Mormons drilled the ancient evidence for women as priests, deacons, elders, bishops, prophets and apostles, as well as the more modern evidence from the 1800s of women giving blessings and whatnot, they might get a more friendly reaction to a move to give women the priesthood. It could fit in with their apostasy narrative.
  15. Thanks for linking to that, Rob. From the interview:
    I also suspect that those women who truly object to a male-only priesthood have left the LDS Church and would not report their religious identification as Mormon. For men, this is less likely to be a make-or-break issue, and so a “feminist Mormon male” is more likely to remain in the faith.
    This is exactly what I think. The women who are truly not okay with this weed themselves out by leaving the church or not joining in the first place. Men are more likely to say, “I don’t like this, but it doesn’t effect me much, so I’ll live with it.”
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