ClobberBlog | Mormonism, Evangelical Christianity

I am teaching Old Testament for Gospel Doctrine next year! w00t

Jack: do you still have my address? or at least send me a pdf scan of that article, pretty please?

The BIG complaint I have about using the Gospel Principles manual is that it will also be used for the investigators and new members class—which means they get two hours out of the same book. Blech!

But stop by my blog next year and see if you can’t join in the discussion for each lesson—we’ve got the whole year divided up amongst us so we should have regular posts. (We’ll also be posting OT material, though prolly nothing quite like TYD’s.)

I’d say the latter, although I wouldn’t use the word “heavy-handed.”

Technically, the Song of Songs is still canon, and Joseph Smith’s marginal note isn’t. But this is true in a technical sense only.

Eric ~ Technically, the Song of Songs is still canon, and Joseph Smith’s marginal note isn’t. But this is true in a technical sense only.

Which is what I thought. I sort of wish the church would take a proper stance on it one way or the other. Everyone seems to refer to JS’s statement on the matter as if it’s authoritative and binding, which confuses us poor Protestants who are regularly being told by LDS apologists that a prophet’s off-handed comments are not binding.

Besides, just think of how much fun a Sunday School lesson on Song of Solomon would be! 

Rob ~ It’s not the fact that it’s left out of the church manuals that makes me call the tradition “heavy-handed.” It’s the dozens of Mormons who have responded to my queries by dismissing the book as “porn.” I had one Hebrew class where Stephen D. Ricks called it “ancient Israeli smut.”

Okay, will do when I get the chance to use the scanner at the school tomorrow.

The essay is 29 pages long. Can probably move the images over the margins so that it can be fitted onto 15 pages, 2 pages to each PDF page.

I wouldn’t use the word “porn,” but there are certainly portions of the Old Testament that are more vulgar than anything you’ll find in the Song of Solomon. Ezekiel certainly doesn’t mince words in his account of Oholah and Oholibah, for example.

I think the Song of Songs is beautifully written, by the way. Anyone who thinks it’s smut either hasn’t read it or hasn’t read real smut.

Seriously? We’re going to give our visitors and new members a double-header every Sunday for the next year?

How about we tell them they can leave after the first dosage; hour #3 is optional.

Then if that works out, we can dispense with hour #3 permanently, church-wide.

I bet that’s the plan.

I took “Bible as Lit” at BYU from a prof that was on the scripture footnotes committee, and he said the committee was split on whether JS’s comment meant the book itself was uninspired or if JS was just not inspired to change it.

I teach RS, and I am so sick of the JS manual. I’m actually looking forward to the thought of teaching basic doctrines. But, I have only looked at the table of contents. No doubt some of the material will end up being problematic.

Song of Solomon Chapter 1, verse 1 of LDS Standard Works, KJV, footnote 1a:

“Note: the JST manuscript states that ‘The Songs of Solomon are not inspired writings.’”

So there you have it, I guess.

Now… am I required to take that to the bank as doctrine or not?

Ahh… the neverending interesting dilemmas of an “internet Mormon”…

P.S. I would like to publicly thank Bridget Jack Meyers for personally introducing me to the Song of Solomon. If that writing isn’t inspired, there is NO kind of inspired writing anywhere on this planet. 

#12 Rob ~ what’s to be lost by just preventing the range war in Sunday School and talking about Jesus instead?

I like talking about Jesus, but I personally value reading the Old Testament for what it is, and not just the parts that directly point to Christ. The Marcionite tendencies in Protestantism kind of piss me off.

(In case anyone doesn’t know what I mean by “Marcionite tendencies”: selling Bibles that only contain the New Testament + Psalms, Bible reading plans that take you through the NT twice and OT once, etc. Basically anything that de-emphasizes the OT.)

I don’t think Scriptures should be passed over because they might offend people. If they might offend people, that’s all the more reason for them to hear it.

#13 Eric ~ Anyone who thinks it’s smut … hasn’t read real smut.

That was usually how I fired back at BYU. “Oh, so you’re a big purveyor of porn, are you?”

#14 & #16 Brian & Aaron ~ Actually, the computer lab at TEDS kind of sucks. Not a Mac in sight and the printer is always breaking down. But I’m sure they do have a scanner.

Another option is for you to hand-deliver it to my house and stay for dinner and dessert.

If you’re willing to wait until February… Maybe you can pick us up from the airport and save my father the trip. Harley is much better about not attacking furniture with food. 

#15 Mephibosheth ~ If hour #3 could be optional, no one would attend.

I used to just go home after Sunday school when I visited because we only lived a few blocks away from the church and I could walk. Now we live far enough to require driving, and we only have one car, so if I went home I’d only be at home for 20 minutes before I’d have to return to the church to pick up Paul & Harley.

Hence I’m stuck in Relief Society once a month. Grr.

#17 Kew ~ How much I wish I could have you as an RS teacher. Well, I think Katie teaches RS as well. Either one of you would do.

#18 TYD ~ What exactly is of interest to you in Genesis 6 hmmm?

I love teaching people about the power of God’s wrath and the depths of God’s mercy. What do you think my interest in Genesis 6 is? The “sons of God” thing? Get your mind out of the gutter!

#19 Seth ~ What about all the church members who speak languages wherein the LDS church hasn’t put out an official Bible with commentary and notes? Are they free to think the SoS is inspired?

#20 Katie ~ If Spencer W. Kimball had been a politician, that quote about rape would have ruined him. Religious leaders are allowed to get away with murder.

And you’re welcome on the Song of Solomon. Huntsman told his students that he reads the SoS with his wife on their anniversary every year. It’s a tradition Paul and I implemented when we got married. 

“I stumbled upon that little gem in an old manual on my mission and thought I would flip my effing lid.”

Go, Katie. 

“If Spencer W. Kimball had been a politician, that quote about rape would have ruined him. Religious leaders are allowed to get away with murder.”

Not just SWK — it’s also in McConkie’s MoDo (and it wasn’t taken out during the revision process that pulled most of the overtly racist sh*t — it’s still there!).

“I personally value reading the Old Testament for what it is, and not just the parts that directly point to Christ.”

The OT has many interesting parts, but is wildly uneven. I’ve heard various explanations as to why reading the begats or lists-of-kings-destroyed or other lists is supposed to bring spirituality or enlightenment, but I’ve never found them particularly convincing. What’s your take, Jack?

This actually strikes me as a good thing… I’m sick of random quotes from prophets being twisted to fit whatever current political statement or I’m-happy-to-sit-home-with-housework-and-babies agenda the teacher has. Hopefully, getting back to the basics will be affirming and uplifting.

Then again, one time I sat in gospel essentials and the whole lesson was devoted to some random thing in Discourses about the timeline of the creation of the earth. I actually came the next week with a stack of church-sponsored stuff correcting him. I will say this: this makes me want to sit in on RS just to throw the bullshit flag. (In college, my roommates and I had a yellow towel/bandana thing we would throw at BS – much like a football penalty flag.)

I’d love to sit in RS with a bullshit flag. That would be AWESOME.

It depends entirely on the teacher and class participation. Even though the book is on “basic” doctrines doesn’t mean you have to focus on what everyone already (presumably) knows. The manual should be a starting point, not a straitjacket.

I think Song of Solomon is inspired, but not necessarily by God. If by God, then probably not for the purposes of Sunday School discussions. 

Just because the titles of the chapter are Jesus-deficient doesn’t mean the teaching of the doctrines therein must be Jesus-deficient. I am of the opinion that if a lesson can’t be tied to Jesus in a meaningful way, then we shouldn’t be teaching it.

I taught Gospel Principles for 6-8 months or so, and I LOVED it. I studied and taught the atonement thoroughly and carefully, which was reflected in my teaching every week. I mean, seriously, if you are teaching about the plan of salvation or the final judgment, you can only draw charts and diagrams for so long before you start teaching that Jesus makes it all possible anyway, and it’s only through His grace that we’re ever going to get a ticket to heaven at the judgment bar.

Another tactic I took was to connect several lessons under overarching themes that couched them in a context where the connection to the atonement was clear. Each week I would remind the class of where we were at in my little scheme and where we were going.

Basically, I think it just takes some creativity, and a well-prepared gospel essentials lesson can lead to some AMAZING discussion, especially if it’s rooted in the scriptures and not people speculating about Kolob, the Adam God theory, and whether or not God ever sinned.